Ray Kennard
Ray Kennard

Service Record

1944-1946 • Enlisted • Navy • USS Ordronaux (DD 617) • Atlantic Ocean; Pacific Ocean • Radioman Third Class

Transcript

Thomas J. Healy II:
Our 1:30 is — I don’t think is going to show. Mr. Bailey was having some doctor’s thing. Let me shut this — So anyways, October 20, we’re going to have a presentation down at Nemours, the Nemours building in town, at the Nemours Theatre, which is on the second floor, which you’ll get an invitation for.

Raymond S. Kennard:
When is it?

Thomas J. Healy II:
The 20th of October.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Okay.

Thomas J. Healy II:
And then the — before Memorial Day, May, we’ll — we’ll have the whole — the whole project will be finished this year, so that’s what we’re shooting for.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Okay.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Okay. Are we ready?

Unidentified speaker:
Mm-hmm.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Okay. What I want you to do first is just say your name and spell your last name.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Raymond. I go by Bud. Kennard, K-E-N-N-A-R-D.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Are you right across from the country club?

Raymond S. Kennard:
No.

Thomas J. Healy II:
No?

Raymond S. Kennard:
Behind the country club.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Behind the country club. Okay. Now, if — if you can, repeat some of the things that I say, because nobody’s going to hear me.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Oh, okay.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Okay. They’re not going to hear me in these interviews at all. So it’s going to be you speaking it out. So if I say, “Where did you grow up?” “I grew up at so-and-so.” You know, answer the question — you know, repeat it —

Raymond S. Kennard:
How are you doing that? I don’t understand how you — you can hear me but not you.

Thomas J. Healy II:
No, no, no, no. When the documentary’s finished, you’re not going to hear my question to you.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Oh, okay.

Thomas J. Healy II:
All they’re going to hear is your answer.

Raymond S. Kennard:
You’re going to edit that out.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Right.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Okay.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Okay. First thing is — and you can just tell a story. I mean, you can tell — it’s where did you grow up, who your parents were and what did they do?

Raymond S. Kennard:
Okay. Well, I grew up in Newark, Delaware. I was born and raised there. My father worked at the Continental-Diamond Fibre, which has now been razed and has college students. My mother was a local woman. She was born and raised in Newark. And as common in those days, she was a full-time housewife. I graduated from Newark High School in 1944. Subsequent to that, I went into the Navy.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Okay. Did you have any brothers and sisters?

Raymond S. Kennard:
I did. I had two — two brothers, both older than I. They were also born and raised in Newark. They both served. My brother — oldest brother served in the Army, and my next brother served in the Navy. So there were three of us, and we were all in the service. We had a flag in the window with three blue stars. No gold ones; thank you.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Now I’m going to ask you about Pearl Harbor, and when you say it back to me, say it back — I’m going to say — you’re going to say, “December 7, 1941, I was” — wherever. Or “I remember that,” or whatever. So —

Raymond S. Kennard:
Well, Pearl Harbor, December 7, 1941, I was 15 years old, I guess. And I don’t recall that day exactly what happened. I know it came over the radio. The thing I remember most about it, in high school, hearing Roosevelt’s speech. We had radios in all the rooms. And we didn’t have TV with instant coverage like we do now, so we didn’t know the full brunt of the thing.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Did you kids even knew where — know where Pearl Harbor was?

Raymond S. Kennard:
I’d never heard of it before then. I’d never heard of Pearl Harbor. And I knew there was a Hawaii, and I knew there was a Honolulu, but I found out where Pearl Harbor was because I went there.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Well, it was — it was — I tell this to everybody because it’s very funny is Mayor Bill McLaughlin, who was the mayor of Wilmington —

Raymond S. Kennard:
Oh, yeah.

Thomas J. Healy II:
— one of his original interviews, he was sitting in the — in the stands at the old Wilmington ballpark watching the Clippers play Charlotte or somebody. And he said over the loudspeaker came, “Pearl Harbor has just been bombed. Everybody back to their base.” And he said he wondered who Pearl Harbor was and why they wanted to hurt her.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Yeah. No. I had never heard of it.

Thomas J. Healy II:
So then just tell me about — a little bit about after Pearl Harbor, you basically finished school or whatever, and then you went in — you know, tell me a little bit about that.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Well, ’41, 1941, I was still in high school, maybe just starting high school. And I went about my life. I was a paperboy, so I followed all the news by reading the papers as I delivered them. And I was working in the A&P store when I became 16. And I learned then about rationing and how the people were trying to get groceries that were hard to get. Then — I did that till I graduated from high school. And five of us in my class decided that summer that we would enlist, and we did. We came into Wilmington, signed up. Went to Philadelphia for our physicals, as I recall. And they took us into the Navy according to our birthday. So I went in in September, the day after my 18th birthday. Went up to Sampson, New York. Naval training station. And that was 60 years ago. In fact, 60 years ago from today, I was in boot camp. What else do you want to know?

Thomas J. Healy II:
Then when — when you finished boot camp, what happened then? Where did you go?

Raymond S. Kennard:
I stayed at Sampson and went to radio school, became a radioman. And that took me through — I don’t know — March or April of 1945. I know I was there when President Roosevelt died, which was April, wasn’t it? April ’45. That’s the year you were born, right?

Thomas J. Healy II:
Mm-hmm.

Raymond S. Kennard:
And from radio school, I went aboard — aboard ship in the Brooklyn Navy Yard.

Thomas J. Healy II:
And tell me about your ship and what you did and —

Raymond S. Kennard:
Well, the ship was in the Brooklyn Navy Yard. It was three or four years old at that time. And it was having the torpedo tubes taken off. I was on a destroyer. And at that time, destroyers had torpedo tubes. And they were taken off and replaced with antiaircraft guns because we were going to the Pacific and the Japanese were giving destroyers hell, kamikazes, so we got antiaircraft. When that was done, we set sail. We left the Port of New York or the New York — the navy yard, and we went on down the coast, went to Cuba. Took on supplies, ammunition and did some gunnery practice. Went through the canal, up to San Diego. Same thing. More provisions, ammunition. Went on to Pearl Harbor. And same thing there. Took on provisions, took on ammunition. Of course we did all that by hand, you know. All hands had a part in the loading operations.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Were you a seaman then or were you a radio operator?

Raymond S. Kennard:
No. I was a radioman.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Radioman?

Raymond S. Kennard:
Yeah. But I was a seaman, and they called it radio striker, which —

Thomas J. Healy II:
Right.

Raymond S. Kennard:
— meant I was an apprentice.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Right.

Raymond S. Kennard:
And so I got all the crap details, too.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Of course.

Raymond S. Kennard:
The senior radiomen sat in there and copied the code. Then we set sail for Okinawa, I guess. No. That wasn’t our first stop. But we set sail for the battle area. And I don’t know how many days it took to get there.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Do you remember —

Raymond S. Kennard:
We hit Saipan, Okinawa. What else?

Thomas J. Healy II:
Do you remember where the other — what the other stops were or anything specific with that? Or any specific battles?

Raymond S. Kennard:
On the way out, we stopped at Midway, I think it was, and bombarded Midway. Then we went on to — I think the next stop was Saipan. Then Okinawa. And just about this time, the atomic bombs were dropped on Japan, and we were — we’re going home. We went up to — up to Japan. We were running some kind of courier duty up there. We were there in Tokyo the day before the arm — or the surrender was signed. We saw all those big battlewagons up there. But we had been tied up down in Okinawa for a while. We were doing picket duty. You heard of picket duty?

Thomas J. Healy II:
Mm-hmm.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Around the island. Very boring. Except every night, we’d get bombarded, bombed by the Japanese. We called them Japs back then. And the night before the war ended, we were in Okinawa in an air raid, and the USS Pennsylvania was there, took a hit and several people were killed. What else? I don’t know.

Thomas J. Healy II:
What was the name — what was the name of your destroyer?

Raymond S. Kennard:
Ship? USS Ordronaux. O-R-D-R-O-N-A-U-X. It was named for John Ordronaux, which was a French naval man. And I don’t know all of that story. Another thing that — when we were in Saipan I remember is the B-29s taking off every evening, going up to Japan to bomb Japan, and we’d watch them come back the next morning. And it was hotter than Hades down there in the South Pacific. In fact, most of the time, I didn’t sleep down in the —

Thomas J. Healy II:
You stayed up in the radio room?

Raymond S. Kennard:
— crew’s quarters. No. I slept out on deck, up on the forward deck. Took a pillow and a blanket up there and laid on the deck because my — where I was in the fantail of the ship, it was no air, hot. What’s the other thing I remember? Typhoons. I remember typhoons, too. We’d always ride out to sea instead of staying in the harbor. And we went back to Okinawa and saw — then I saw why we went to sea. All these smaller ships were washed up on shore, beat up. So I know what these people have been going through in the hurricanes now.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Did — The battles that you — I mean, were you involved in any “battle” battles?

Raymond S. Kennard:
No. No. No.

Thomas J. Healy II:
No. You took — no kamikazes?

Raymond S. Kennard:
We had — I don’t know what they were because I was down in the hold of the — not in — but below the gun mounts where we passed it, so I don’t know what was coming. Planes came over at night and bombed us. None of them were kamikazes that I know of. But on our trip out, on our way out to the Pacific from Honolulu, there were destroyers coming back that had been hit by kamikaze. The whole bridge was blown off. Gave us something to think about.

Thomas J. Healy II:
How was Pearl Harbor when you got there?

Raymond S. Kennard:
I don’t know. I don’t remember.

Thomas J. Healy II:
No?

Raymond S. Kennard:
I remember going on the Liberty in Honolulu. That’s about all.

Thomas J. Healy II:
How was that? Wasn’t guys riding off the piers and stuff on their bikes and things?

Raymond S. Kennard:
No. I don’t remember too much about that. It was only one day. Go in Liberty and come back out again. I was only 18, you know. It’s all 60 years ago.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Did — so when you went out — I mean, there wasn’t any time to be scared, or there wasn’t any time to be — you just didn’t really think about it, did you?

Raymond S. Kennard:
You know, I don’t think so. When I look back now, when I left — when we left New York, I was sick, seasick, the whole time from New York to Pearl Harbor. And as I look back now, I think it was a lot of nerves. First time I’d been away from home for any extent. We were going down to sea. I didn’t know whether I’d ever be coming back or not. So I don’t know whether it was all the motion of the sea or not. Because I rode through typhoons and never got sick. And — and I was young, and I don’t think young people have enough sense to be scared. I couldn’t do it now.

Thomas J. Healy II:
What —

Raymond S. Kennard:
I never thought about the ship being sunk, for instance. That was a — that could happen. But I didn’t dwell on that.

Thomas J. Healy II:
What happened the first time you were bombed? Did you think about — I mean, did it — were you in the radio shack or —

Raymond S. Kennard:
No. I was in the gun compartment. You know, there’s a gun mount up on the deck. Then down below two levels, there’s equipment to pass the ammunition up into. My job at general quarters was in that upper handling room where we put the projectiles in the elevator that went up to the gun. So I don’t know what was going on. I was completely —

Thomas J. Healy II:
Isolated?

Raymond S. Kennard:
— isolated from all the — probably just as well. Nobody on our ship that I know of was ever seriously injured in battle. The ship itself served a lot of time over in the Mediterranean and with the European Theater.

Thomas J. Healy II:
At that time, did you have a girlfriend at home, or were you —

Raymond S. Kennard:
Yeah. A high school girlfriend.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Tell me about — tell me about that. Did she end up —

Raymond S. Kennard:
“Dear John.”

Thomas J. Healy II:
— being your wife?

Raymond S. Kennard:
“Dear John.”

Thomas J. Healy II:
Oh, tell me about “Dear John.” Tell me about that.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Well, when I came back home — we cor —

Thomas J. Healy II:
It looks like it’s still bothering you. I’m just kidding.

Raymond S. Kennard:
We corresponded the whole time I was in the Navy. And when we came home, I saw her a couple times, I guess. And I went — went back to Charleston. I said Charleston. And “Dear John,” you know. She was in college. She found somebody else.

Thomas J. Healy II:
“Dear Raymond.” No. “Dear Bud.”

Raymond S. Kennard:
Bud.

Thomas J. Healy II:
“Dear Bud.”

Raymond S. Kennard:
Yeah. “Dear Bud.”

Thomas J. Healy II:
Was she at the University of Delaware? Was she at the University of Delaware?

Raymond S. Kennard:
No. No. She was in a college up in Massachusetts.

Thomas J. Healy II:
But you went to high school with her and stuff?

Raymond S. Kennard:
Yep.

Thomas J. Healy II:
So that was after that. Then you get — you come back. Did you get — when you got out, did you get out right after VJ Day or that September?

Raymond S. Kennard:
Oh, no, no, no.

Thomas J. Healy II:
How long? That was in September?

Raymond S. Kennard:
I had to wait till the next June.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Okay.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Because I was young and you had to have points. And I didn’t have too many points because I hadn’t been in a long time and I was young. But I did get out in June. I went back to my job in the A&P store, stocking shelves. I didn’t join the 52-20 club. Did you ever hear of that?

Thomas J. Healy II:
Yes.

Raymond S. Kennard:
I didn’t join that. I don’t know why. I wanted to go to work. Then in September, I started at the University of Delaware. Then I went — went four years there and graduated. Found my wife in my junior year. Married her just before the start of my senior year and still got her. 55 years. She was a nurse at the Memorial Hospital. Do you remember the Memorial Hospital?

Thomas J. Healy II:
I remember the Memorial Hospital, and she probably was in my aunt’s school. Mary Gert Healy.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Was she a nurse?

Thomas J. Healy II:
She was the head of the school.

Raymond S. Kennard:
I don’t remember that name. Memorial Hospital?

Thomas J. Healy II:
At the Memorial —

Raymond S. Kennard:
I remember Mrs. Little. Grace Little.

Thomas J. Healy II:
She was at the — your wife would remember Mary Gertrude Healy.

Raymond S. Kennard:
I’ll ask her.

Thomas J. Healy II:
She ran the — she ran the Wilmington General Hospital.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Huh?

Thomas J. Healy II:
The school at the Wilmington General Hospital, she ran.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Oh.

Thomas J. Healy II:
And then she ran the Wilmington School of Nursing after that.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Oh.

Thomas J. Healy II:
So she’d know — she’d know —

Raymond S. Kennard:
I’ll ask her.

Thomas J. Healy II:
She was quite a dictator, my aunt. Then what did you go on to do?

Raymond S. Kennard:
I went with the DuPont Company. As soon as I graduated, I went to Texas. They sent me to Texas. I was in construction. I was a construction engineer, graduated in civil engineering. I stayed down in Texas for four and a half years. Then I came back to Delaware, and I worked at Lavere’s for 35 years. And I’ve been retired for almost 15 years now.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Did you work with Charlie Brown and —

Raymond S. Kennard:
CD Brown?

Thomas J. Healy II:
Uh-huh.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Sure. He and I worked together down in Texas.

Thomas J. Healy II:
And who else was — who was his right-hand man? He’s dead now. He went down — ended up down in — down in South Carolina. It was his right-hand man. Not Ray —

Raymond S. Kennard:
I don’t know.

Thomas J. Healy II:
He was with — he was with Charlie.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Yeah.

Thomas J. Healy II:
The — what was the hardest part of your time in the service?

Raymond S. Kennard:
I don’t know. Nothing stands out as being a hard time. I went in, did what I had to do and got out. I don’t know. They fed us good. The winter was very cold up in Sampson. And it was very hot in the South Pacific. And the typhoons were wicked. Wasn’t — I should have been scared, and I wasn’t.

Thomas J. Healy II:
If you read a lot, what do you think the history books — have the history books or what have they left out about World War II?

Raymond S. Kennard:
I don’t know. I haven’t read the history boo — I’m doing a lot of reading now. I’ve read a lot about the — the war in Europe and Pacific. I’ve read — what’s the guy’s name? About Iwo Jima. I read that book. But I get a sense that the kids don’t — really don’t know a lot about World War II. And the things I read when they ask questions, sometimes they’re really ignorant. I think they need to learn really what we lived through back then. It wasn’t easy. Even on the home front, it was tough. And the loss of life — the more I think about that terrible — the slaughter at D-Day. One of my friends was in the Navy. He was a coxswain on a landing craft, and he told me that he can’t even eat ketch — ketchup or spaghetti anymore, there was so much blood in the water. And the thing that amazes me, too, how united the country was back in those days. Everybody was involved in the war effort, some way or the other. We don’t have that feeling now. We’re at war, but I know there’s not that feeling amongst the people. They don’t think we’re at war. And we are at war. So —

Thomas J. Healy II:
Here, this sort of lends to the same thing. What do you want the generations to come and to know and remember about World War II?

Raymond S. Kennard:
Well, I think that they should know that there was — the people of those days had dedication and a sense of responsibility. They saw what their job was and they did it. It was sacrifice, a lot of ’em. Different kinds of sacrifice. Financial. Some with their life. If I can go down to Newark, there’s a big monument in front of the academy building. It’s got all these guys’ names on it that died. I knew them all. Newark was a really small town then, and we all pitched in. I don’t — we don’t have that feeling now. And I don’t know how to do that, how you instill that.

Thomas J. Healy II:
I don’t know either, and I’m part — I’m too close to your side versus I have — I have younger brothers and sisters, and then I have my — my own children from age 37 to 17, so I’ve got a pretty big spread there, and then even the younger kids. And to me, even after 9/11, the give-me-up part is “Don’t I get a cappuccino twice a day instead of once a day?” And I mean, I have this feeling maybe because I’m older, but I don’t understand it a lot. We are at war. There are sacrifices. And what’s a sacrifice today mean to anybody? Say what? That they get a Chevrolet versus a Mercedes? I don’t know. I mean, I don’t know what — what’s the sacrifice today?

Raymond S. Kennard:
There’s nothing given up. Unless you have — somebody’s in the military and really close, I don’t think you have that feeling.

Thomas J. Healy II:
I mean, I think — and of course I was just born in 1945, but just in the readings and the stuff that I’ve done, felt that the closest we got to the Second World War was September 11.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Yeah.

Thomas J. Healy II:
The closest.

Raymond S. Kennard:
And it didn’t last very long.

Thomas J. Healy II:
I think in some places, it does; in the smaller communities. I was up in Massachusetts this weekend, a little town of 24,000 people, that’s basically still in the ’60s and the ’70s. I mean, it’s still the troops and the flags and the — and the sacrificing up there of sending stuff. And I think we’ve also seen the little programs that they didn’t really build up enough. It’s like — would you have ever thought during World War II, here the program during this war was: Let’s send the troops air conditioners.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Some lady did that.

Thomas J. Healy II:
But it’s part of, I guess, our generation and our culture right now. And it’s a sacrifice for them. People — but I mean, I think that — I don’t understand it myself.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Well, I’ve had something in my life recently. My niece came to live with us 20-some years ago. She’s about your age — no. She’s younger than you. She grew up in the Midwest, Minnesota. And she had no idea about the military. We live on the East Coast. Lots of military, right? Air bases, Norfolk, Fort Bragg and all that. She doesn’t know anything. And she has been transformed into one of the greatest patriots I know. In fact, she gave my wife and I a Christmas present to go to the dedication of the national World War II memorial. And she just ate that up. It makes me feel good to see that. She flies a flag. She went from a nothing in patriotism to, well, really patriotic. And she’s trying to learn all she can — excuse me — about my generation and what we went through. And she’s getting a good education.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Well, it’s funny. There’s lady right here that has a son that’s about 10 or — between 10 and 12, that just can’t wait to talk to — to World War II vets.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Yeah.

Thomas J. Healy II:
I don’t know — I don’t know what that is. I mean, I don’t know whether — I don’t know. I — it’s — I’d like to find out, but it’s — it’s being raised in that with you guys after you. Now, why do you think — that’s a good question. Why — why do you think you guys are referred to as the Greatest Generation?

Raymond S. Kennard:
Well, sometimes I don’t think we are. I sometimes think — I think my mother and father were a greater generation, what they went through. God. The sacrifice. Well, they all grew up — or they were married and raising a family during the Depression. They saw their sons go off to war. They never had a lot of money, most of them. And I think they instilled something in us that made us be called the Greatest Generation. Well, I’m proud to have that title, though. And I’ve read Tom Brokaw’s books. And I heard him at the dedication. He was there.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Here’s — here’s a good — what major message would you leave for the generations to come?

Raymond S. Kennard:
You’ve got to pay for freedom, one way or the other. You’ve got to be ready to stand up and make that payment when the time comes.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Okay. What else?

Raymond S. Kennard:
I’ve got to tell you, when I got out of the Navy, I didn’t want anything more to do with the service. I dropped my life insurance. Remember that — dumbest thing I ever did. Didn’t want any parts of the service. And until almost 10 years ago. Nothing to do. And all of a sudden, I got a call one day from a woman out in Salt Lake City. She wanted to know if I was the Raymond Kennard who served on the USS Ordronaux. She was putting together a reunion for our ship’s crew. Her husband had been a Marine pilot or a Navy pilot — I don’t know which. And he had been down in Orange, Texas, and that’s where our ship had gone. From Charleston to Orange, Texas. Then from Orange, Texas to the junkyard. Well, anyway, he — he took the log, 1945 log, logbook, out of that ship and had started contacting all these sailors. And these two young people have become our sponsors or something. I don’t know. But we’ve had several reunions — well, they had several reunions before they found me, and since then, we’ve all come back together again. And it’s hard to describe what that bond is. And I’m going to put — I’m supposed to put on the next reunion. I’m the youngest guy in the ship’s crew. The oldest guy is now — living is 85. He was our executive officer. And I don’t think he’s too long for this world. But that was really great, getting back. I saw guys I hadn’t seen for 50 years. Talk about changes — ooh.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Did you have it down in Charleston?

Raymond S. Kennard:
Pardon.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Have you had it in Charleston?

Raymond S. Kennard:
They had it, but I didn’t get — they had one down in Baltimore I didn’t even get to. First one I went to was in San Diego. Great, great.

Thomas J. Healy II:
When I lived in Charleston, they had a lot of reunions.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Yeah.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Because of the museum. They’ve got the carrier down there and a bunch of other memorials and things. They used to have a lot —

Raymond S. Kennard:
Yeah. I’ve been back to Charleston and I couldn’t even find what I recognized. The only thing I recognized was that square. Marion Square or something like that.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Mm-hmm.

Raymond S. Kennard:
I couldn’t find where the ship was, the navy yard or anything.

Thomas J. Healy II:
That’s all change — the navy yard is —

Raymond S. Kennard:
Oh, the town has grown something.

Thomas J. Healy II:
— all filled up and — What do you want to do?

Unidentified speaker:
It’s good.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Is that okay?

Unidentified speaker:
You want to do the profile?

Thomas J. Healy II:
Yeah.

Raymond S. Kennard:
You done with me?

Thomas J. Healy II:
No. Not yet. We’ve just got to do a quiet profile of you since you’re such a good-looking guy.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Oh, Jesus.

Thomas J. Healy II:
But you’re going to turn completely — yeah. You’re going to turn this way, like this. Here you go. And you’re going to look at me. You don’t have to say anything at all. I’ll — I’ll tell you some stories.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Gonna tell me some sea stories?

Thomas J. Healy II:
No. You have to know my dad from being down at Lavere’s because he spent a lot of time with Charlie Brown. You know, he did the Healy-DiSabatino construction management for DuPont. I mean, that’s —

Raymond S. Kennard:
Yeah. Where was that? Out at the station?

Thomas J. Healy II:
All over the place. We were down in — we were all over the country with the Healey-DiSabatino because —

Raymond S. Kennard:
Not — not in my days in construction.

Thomas J. Healy II:
This would have been — well, Dad died — Dad died in ’96. This would have to be in the ’80s.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Yeah. Well, I retired in ’89. Charlie Brown retired in ’89, too.

Thomas J. Healy II:
Well, he was — Charlie was there. Charlie was there when — no. I mean Charlie was there working with Dad because they went to —

Raymond S. Kennard:
Were you guys [inaudible] shop?

Thomas J. Healy II:
Yeah. Down at — well, we were down — we were the ones that negotiated the labor contract because there were — DuPont didn’t want to touch the labor stuff, so we had to hire the union guys. Seaford was the first big job.

Raymond S. Kennard:
The original Seaford? No.

Thomas J. Healy II:
No. Actually my dad worked — right after the war, my dad came back, but he didn’t go back to our family business. He went right to DuPont down in Seaford.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Oh.

Thomas J. Healy II:
And I don’t know. He spent a couple years down there. And then he came — then he came back to the family business. But he was — we have a little thing for him at the University of Del — he played football at University of Delaware. But he was a big — that was his civil engineer —

Raymond S. Kennard:
What year? Before the war?

Thomas J. Healy II:
Yeah. I think they all got out, I think ’38, ’39. And we have an ongoing scholarship thing for — I don’t know. It’s not a lot of money, but it’s for somebody in civil engineering who plays football because he loved it both —

Raymond S. Kennard:
Oh, we had some of those in my classroom.

Thomas J. Healy II:
He loved it both — he loves — I mean, Delaware was his — his alpha and his omega. Siget.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Siget. Yeah. I know where that is.

Thomas J. Healy II:
He was a Siget.

Raymond S. Kennard:
I think they closed them down, though.

Thomas J. Healy II:
They did, but they’re back again.

Raymond S. Kennard:
Oh, are they?

Thomas J. Healy II:
They’re back again. So — I’m just trying to think. Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray. Who knew Charlie Brown. No Rays. Ray. My mom’s still alive and well and kicking. She hears from Charlie all the time and —

Raymond S. Kennard:
I haven’t seen him in years. He mov — (Conclusion of interview.)

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